ON SMALL EUPHORIA:
TAEHEE WHANG AND
BRADLEY SINANAN

Bradley
Cool. Hi! Um, Bradley Sinanan here.
Taehee
I'm Taehee.
Bradley
We're at Godfrey's in Richmond, Virginia. It's February 25th, 2023.
Taehee
Oh my goodness.
Bradley
I feel like I have to say all that stuff.
Taehee
It's like really official.
Bradley
Yeah, it's really official. As if I was like, this is a newspaper. Like as if I'm like -- journalism.
Taehee
Oh my God. This is journalism. Do you have podcasts?
Bradley
I'm resistant to having a podcast.
Taehee
To be honest, I would listen to your podcast.
Bradley
That's really sweet. I feel like that market is quite saturated. Um, cool. So I pretty much have one question that I want to start with and then go off from there. Yeah. But I kind of just wanted you to tell me about the first time you went to a queer club.
Taehee
Oh, good question. Yeah, no, I actually went to, hmm, but actually let me fact check myself before I answer that, but at least what I could say is that the moment I actually went to queer bar experience was... it came a little bit late because it was senior year of my college. And I think that was a moment that was the year that I really felt, even though I identified as queer before, but it was very like discreet. I just like didn't tell it to people. And then that was a moment I felt really like I am feeling myself. I'm really like comfortable enough to go out. And I also found out the person I have a crush on is going to be at this a lesbian function. I forget the name because they closed it down. But this is in RISD, Providence, Rhode Island. I think it was like Saturn something, something, or like Pluto's something. I don't know. And then sometimes they have a very grunge band playing. It's just a club definitely targeting lesbians. So that felt like, oh, this is a queer bar for me. Yeah. I just really like having a great time dancing and just very felt very experimental in terms of how I like occupying the space. And then I think eventually I started going to queer space because of love watching drag show, basically. I mean my introduction to drag show was, like I feel a for a lot of our generation, was Rupaul's Drag Race. Which was I think like questionable as it is, still it's so important some of the effect it has. But yeah, I heard that Kim Chi was coming through Providence, I must go. And then I went to fucking Ego Providence, the bane of existence, but like every -- it's so funny -- all the different gays. There's so many different kinds of gay just gathered in one space.
Bradley
What is that? E-Providence?
Taehee
Yeah, Ego Providence. Ego Providence.
Bradley
What's that?
Taehee
It's a gay club. A little bit more masc, but like just all the gays go there. Like girls who are having her bachelorette party. All different kinds of people are really mingling under this setting. So just that was my first queer space experience in terms of club wise.
Bradley
Yeah. I think it's interesting that like going to a queer club feels like this moment where you're like, oh yeah, I'm it's this space where you can actually feel allowed to be like, yeah, that's who I am. Like you discovered it there. Because I feel like when I was an undergrad and I went to the gay club that I went to and I was in Southern Knights in Orlando, which was like my first gay club. And I like feel like you have so much everyone has so much nostalgia for that experience. But you do feel like there's a sense of being allowed. But earlier you said experimenting with being in the space. What do you mean? Like, how do you feel about that?
Taehee
I would like there are some days I would dress really femme, like really high femme. Like, kind of like nasty girl femme. And then there are moments I'm just like I want to be slightly boyish, but at the same time I was trying to navigate how I feel about my own gender or how people perceive me. So there are moments definitely, I want to look like this fucking high femme bitch. Yeah. And at the same time, I'm not that exactly either so I wanna play play around with it, you know?
Bradley
It's a performance of it.
Taehee
It really felt like it. And oh my god, I actually did talk about my therapist one time because every time if I go back to Korea, I feel like I had to put on this like straight girl drag. Like I need to -- even though like not that I was doing something crazy -- but I think there is a vibe that, I'm not like trying. I was not really appearing as a normal, heteronormative girl. From get go. But then I would like try my best to fit into that. And I was like so self conscious about it. Like I'm already doing that every time I go there. And then like, it was so bizarre because I would say it was junior or senior year I got an undercut. And then, and then I went back to Korea for summer and then my mom was like, trying to... So I try to cover with like cover my undercut with my longer side of the hair. And then, and then I think that was when the shooting happened at the gay club, the one of the earlier one, yeah the Pulse shooting happened. And it was just really weird moment. I'm just like I'm in my own fucking country where I speak the language and somehow I really don't really feel like I'm like being myself. It's a kind of really weird dissociating moment.
Bradley
That felt sparked by Pulse?
Taehee
I mean, it was always exisiting, but then, this specific targeting of homophobia was like, kind of like focusing on that, like a little bit. I'm just like, I don't know... this is a reality in a way. And also, if I do live in Korea, I feel I can only navigate this girl drag look in Korea only maybe two months. But if I were to live there, I don't, I feel like I would really have a tough time surviving. That's how I always felt. But then like, I think this was like, when my moment, I'm just like, do I give a fuck or not? Like about how other people might think about me. Yeah. Like, I'm just like, I'm just in like, whatever space I'm occupying. But I think like to get to that point, like going to queer spaces, gay club, like experimenting little by little really helped. I think.
Bradley
Oh, have you been to queer spaces in Korea?
Taehee
I did.
Bradley
How was that?
Taehee
It was actually, it felt really alienating in a way, like, even though I had like, I definitely had support. Because I'm in this country where there are people who look like me. There's like someone I know, described yeah, like, in this, in the state, even the... whatchamacallit... the one you use to like, clean your ear, like...
Bradley
Q-tips?
Taehee
Q-tips. Even Q-tips are sometimes too big for our ear. But in Korea, there's like exact perfect size. That feels right. So like, there's like certain little nuances that just, these objects and products, understands how my body is. Because it's like Korea's fucking homogenous, which is also, not entirely true. But, most of the queer people that I saw are like pretty white at the time. Yeah. So I'm just like, I want to really know queer space of people who look like me, basically. And then, I just like realized like, oh, I don't really belong here. So even though we might speak same language, our daily life and what we have to navigate is a completely different subject matter. The reality, the stake of it, is so different. I found this like, lesbian bar in Itaewon through Twitter. There's a huge queer Korean, lesbian Twitter thing. So I found it and was talking to a bartender, she was just chatting me up. But it's just like, whenever we try to have a conversation, it's really hard to have because, even though I'm speaking pretty fluently, but then like, we cannot empathize with each other. And then after that, I went to Trunk, which used to be really big, THE gay club in Itaewon. And obviously I was surrounded by, mostly cis gay men. And there was like one like, maybe, non-binary, femme person who was like approaching me, but I was so shook by this, sheer difference of reality. Like, I navigate and they navigate. And also I mean that that is like my privilege. But also, there is like a yearning, there was a hope that maybe I wanted to feel understood because their bodies may appear similarly, but the reality is that what we navigate are also very different. Oh, and then another another reason why I was like kind of feeling dissociating-ish, because I was walking around streets of Itaewon, Itaewon is like -- I think it's like very like touristy spot now. There are a lot of clubs, restaurants, a lot of heteros go there now. It used to be like more trans and queer-centric for a while. It used to be also like US Army base. Yeah, that's why they have like more like queer catering bar catering to US Army. But and then before US Army was occupying that space, it was like, like traditionally where like foreigners will actually stay.
Bradley
So the clubs were serving the US Army because they were gay?
Taehee
Definitely because they're gay US soldiers who are looking for hookups. But, so that's how that area is known as like more queer-ish and foreign space. Anyway, so there is a history of sex work there. And I was just navigating this alleyway and it's not literally out in the public and I was passing by and there was a massage shop basically, which is where sex work is happening. And I made eye contact with one of the sex workers. And it just felt so bizarre because she looked so empty at that moment. And I just felt like I feel I don't belong here because I felt like I was a tourist at that moment. And a lot of people, they're definitely Korean American, queer Korean Americans. Being like "oh my god, I'm discovering and reconnecting with my roots. And like this queer space in my mother's tongue and motherland." I'm just like, no, it's such a complicated geopolitics. And then I think that was the moment I'm just like realizing this land has so much history that I almost feel like it might be just wrong to try to explain this as my queer diaspora discovery basically. It just felt like an injustice.
Bradley
It's really self-serving in a way.
Taehee
Yeah. So it felt like that. And I feel like at the end, like I just accepted a lot of like Korean people, queer Korean people that I ended up feeling connected to are like, either like queer Koreans who live abroad for so long, or just like Korean American or people of the Korean diaspora basically. Yeah, that's mostly it, I guess.
Bradley
And so with like your relationship to drag, because you brought up drag in two contexts. I think it's really interesting, right? So there's like the drag performance, like on the stage at the gay bar, but there's also this idea that you're doing like straight girl drag when you go to Korea. I guess, what is your relationship to watching drag performances? Did you, are there drag performances when you went to Korea?
Taehee
Yeah, I watched it at the Trunk. And it was great. I'm so glad I actually went there. Even though I was like kind of having like semi-dissociating moment but at least like the performance of it. They don't joke around, it's so good. But also like, but also I do have to point out like a lot of the drag performers who are performing, their bodies are not as diverse. Because like here, I feel like, I feel like they're very wide range of like whatever body you have, you can channel it. You can like perform it, you can channel it, you can drag. But I feel like some of like drag performers, even though they perform so well, it's like what they're trying to like embody, the femininity is like very specific, hetero, like over the top, like very like specific femininity. That's like really beautiful, skinny, like very femme passing. And that's like a little bit heading more towards that, which I'm like, I don't know. That's how I felt. But I know that there are a lot of also like drag, oh my God, I'm like blanking out the word... like, like drag performer who are, was AFAB, but...
Bradley
Dra kings?
Taehee
Drag kings. Oh my God. Why did I? so there's actually like interesting movement with like a drag kings. That's like actually more fascinating to me in Korea. But also like, I'm not really friend with them in terms of... we're like complicated. Even though, I want to respect you in terms of what you're taking on and how to unpack your relationship with masculinity or your societal masculinity, but just in real life, I'm just... I hate your tweet. I hate your personality. I think you're corny. I'm just like, I feel my risk is, I am like, I am fan of you from afar, but I don't think we could be friends.
Bradley
Yeah. It's so funny. Cause there are people where it's like, I know on paper, we should get along or I should really like you. But then the actual lived experience of that is always very different. And that's the thing too. I think that's so interesting about like you were saying this desire that you were going to feel really understood, right? Yeah. This feeling like, Oh yeah, I'm going to feel really known here or affirmed. So I'm curious, like, hold on.
--RAT MOMENT!--
This is New York moment. I'm seeing a rat. There's a rat. There's a rat. Ratatouille. He's going downstairs. There's a rat. There's a rat. That was very New York. We had to look at it. Sorry.
Bradley
No, no. I was going to ask you like, where do you feel like you've had the most affirming experience in a queer space? Taehee
That's a really good question. Like basically queer euphoria. The thing is, okay, I think definitely in the club setting, like a more public setting when it felt like queer euphoria is when I'm out and dancing with my chosen family, my friends, who I feel comfortable with, and who are accepting of who I am. We can prepare, pre-game to go out together, wherever that might be. And then just enjoying the night together meant more, so much to me. So like, I think that was like kind of like generally like my definition of earlier queer euphoria, just, I love this moment. I'm with my friend walking around, whatever, East Village or Brooklyn at night, it's like 2am, 3am. There might not be a train, but we just were cheering at this drag [show]. I was like screaming at my heart's content. I can just scream out yes -- cause like I also like feel like very insecure about my voice sometimes. Especially I know that I'm loud, but I'm also like whenever I'm in public space, even though I don't give a fuck sometimes that I am loud, but I feel like insecure about it. But in this moment, if I cheer, if I am loud, that's a good thing. I'm like cheering for this person, I'm rooting for this person. At least that's how I think.
Bradley
Yeah, it's supportive. This moment where it's probably one of the few times where screaming and being loud is coded as really nice and really fun and good. You know what I mean? Instead of... often when you're screaming, it's like the traditional ideas of screaming are like, oh no, something horrible is happening. But it's this moment where I'm like, no, I'm screaming and it's great. And it rocks. I mean, I've, I've resonated so much with what you were talking about where you have this expectation of this space and then you felt really disappointed. Cause I remember when I went to ** which is really weird because I should... Oh God, yeah. I should, you know, and that's the thing, the desire.
Taehee
The desire!
Bradley
The desire to be like, I feel comfortable and known and understood in this space is so strong. And then when I got there and I, I still don't even know what it was that made me feel like still something is wrong. I think a lot of it came down to body, body image and things like that. But it's just that, that disappointment when this thing that you feel like is going to be Mecca, you know, doesn't meet that expectation. It's like a really specific grief, like type of grief that I think really dominated my time in New York.
Taehee
Oh my God, it's so real! It's so real, Bradley!
Bradley
I feel like that, I was like, cause I was mourning. I don't know what I was mourning. What do you feel like you were mourning?
Taehee
Oh, I really, really feel strongly about that. Like, cause like, especially when I, the year I moved in, 2016 and like, then that election happened! And then, I found out about *** and *** are hosting this like, group like, I don't know, not healing, but like more like, organizing, they're organizing something, like to talk about this collectively. And it almost half felt like parties based function, but half felt like actually connecting to the community. It had the illusion of that, which is why I was like, excited about it, but then once you like, get to like, understand like, the space and like, understand each individual's desire and vision at the end, even though they -- I want to believe that they maybe started out as like, they have like a good intention and they care about community -- but at the end, oh, you're doing this for yourself. So like, okay. And, cause like at the end, like you might talk about whole lecture about community, but you're still like, shitty, you have shitty politics. You're like, shitty politics as in like, you are very shitty to a person. You're shitty to a person based on like, this silly little thing. Yeah. Like, you don't have any generosity. Like, if you really want to do transformative justice work that you are preaching, you are going to cancel someone for interpersonal conflict is so silly to me. And there are a lot of that. There are parts that, okay, I still respect, I have to respect in a way, because it's still hard to do. But at the same time, I'm just like, oh, we should never put anybody on pedestal that is thinking that this is gonna like create a space that I really feel understood. I feel like, yeah. And I feel like that's kind of prevalent. And also people commodify this shit. They really commodify that desire to, that yearning to, be accepted. And that's how I feel. Yeah. At least the music was good.
Bradley
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure the music was good. I never actually got the chance to go out to ***, but I always wanted to go. Taehee
It's okay. It's actually pretty like fun if you go like one time, but like, I don't know. Wow. Well, I'm just, I feel like I'm just like dissing everybody. I'm just skeptical, but I'm not saying that they're wrong. I feel like at the end, they're party venues. Not that they are like doing full transformative justice. I mean if you think about it, maybe it is like a radical thing to have a party space that is geared for certain non majority body. But then at the same time, my friend told me, who went to *** for the first time with me. And then they're like, and it was like a first *** after like long pandemic. And some of the people are like, "Oh my God, it's so great. The community is like back together." And then she --cause she's straight girl -- she asked me like, "Oh, so what do you mean by a community? Like, do they have slack?" [Laughs] I love her. But yeah, I know like maybe yes, there are some friendships, but at the same time, some of the community is a surface level relationship. Surface level politics sometimes. Not all of it for sure. But like, I'm just like, that kind of because you asked me the question. I don't think community is the right word. It is a scene. And it's okay to say that. Cause like we need that scene too, in order to like build a community. I feel like, one thing that I've been thinking about a lot is that just because you have like same identity, doesn't mean that you have same community.
Bradley
I've been thinking about that a lot too. And I think that was, that was the part about that. I think both of us were talking about where it's like, we had this experience where we went somewhere and we felt like this was where it was supposed to all click or all make sense but the things were sitll not lining up. I mean, you know, you're talking about your chosen family and your friends, your values and interests probably -- even if there is a similar identity -- probably are developed outside of that as well. Like the things that make y'all feel understood, isn't exclusively, you know, based on an identity.
Taehee
Yeah. No, like, and then maybe going back to like, like queer euphoria, I felt like going out definitely there were moments, but there are moments I would have a house party and then I would actually go hard on my actually putting on drag or something. A really like extreme, like makeup outfit. And I love like being that presence in front of my friends who are also really enjoying that and rooting for me. So yeah, it's like this combination of that, just very more personal community. And then there's the public and then they are my chosen family who is like being there for me. I think that is like dynamic that is like so important.
Bradley
Yeah. Cause I feel like there's this idea that like, you know, inherent to community is like care, but like I've been in spaces where I'm amongst my community quote unquote, and I have not felt cared for. Like at all. But that only develops through intimate relationships with other people where they actually like, yeah, you're a chosen family or they give you the plasticity to be other things. Like they give you flexibility to like be other things. I think that's what's so frustrating about, like you were talking about being in Korea and, or sorry, being in RISD and sort of experimenting with different looks but the thing is it's so singular. Like when you're there and you look a certain way, you've like, you kind of make a decision, like a choice. Like tonight I am this person. There's no, there's no backsies. You know what I mean? Like you wore this, you look this way, people are going to consider you this way. There's no multiplicity. Like you're that one thing for the evening, which is kind of exciting, but also it's a very limiting experience. I would love to know more about how you felt based off of how you dressed, if you were treated or how like your night went or like if things were different. Like what was the difference between a night where you were being boyish versus like high femme?
Taehee
Yeah, I feel like, so early, like earlier part of the year when I lived in New York, I had very short hair, I had like shaved and like short hair for like a long while. Like it was during pandemic era I really started to grow out my hair. And I definitely noticed a difference in terms of when I like walked in the street, I feel like I got like a less unwanted attention. Or even when I work at the, like at my work, like public space, I feel like once you have this very extreme gesture of shaved head or very short hair, people that notice think "hold on, I should not assume who this person is and might be, but then like once I started to have like more like femme hair, I'm just like, am I she/her?
Bradley
You're like, I'm in my she/her drag.
Taehee
Yeah, I'm like, but then the thing is like, I feel like the difference between like me like kind of like having rough time about am I like having this like a straight girl drag versus like, she her girl drag. It's like definitely I feel like now I'm having like, I'm like, kind of able to like, use it as an opportunity to gauge who you are. Like other person will like automatically goes into like, oh, she her, just like, okay, I'm gonna kind of test it out and see. That is interesting. Like, that's how I feel. And just like, not in a bad way. I'm not really offended by it because I know what I look like right now. I'm not, slowly I'm just like, hmm. But I'm not, I, this is, I'm going to use this as a way to understand who you are and how you treat the type of body that I have. So that's how I'm like, kind of like using it as maybe. Wait, what was, I feel like I kind of like lost track.
Bradley
I don't fully remember what I asked either. But I am fascinated. I think the difference between this like idea of straight girl drag and then being like she/her is like agency, right? You have this ability to be like, I can choose to put it on and take it off.
Taehee
Yeah and I think that was possible because I like tried all of this, like iterations of myself. Like I tried all of this and like, here I am, like, even let's say that I don't have to do like certain like look to know who I am, like what I am most comfortable with. I don't have, sure, I love playing with that still, but like, it's not for necessarily other people. If I do that, that's gonna be for me. And my friends.
Bradley
I'm curious to think about aesthetics and gender expression. And also the way we're trying to attempt to understand gender as this... And I think you think about this a lot in your work too, right? Like the interiority and internal experience of gender that is personal. But then there's also this need, and I find that like, because a lot of conversations about gender have been happening on like, Instagram and like social media, they're really focused on like, the gaze, like the eyes like looking like, I had a friend once, they like found this skirt or something. And they're like, that's so non-binary. I was like, no, that doesn't... that's incorrect. Like using it almost like a descriptor of a fashion trend or also only relegating it to visual aesthetics. And I'd love to hear more because this, you know, we've been talking a lot about going out and being public and performing self and seeing the visually performing different gender expression. I feel like there's so many other aspects of gender identity that are getting like tucked away. Because all the conversations are happening on a micro blogging image platform.
Taehee
I feel like I'm gonna bring this book once again. You know what book I'm talking about.
Bradley
I know what book you're talking about. It's the book of the fucking semester. You're always going to come back.
Taehee
I'm going to keep saying it again and again. The trans girl suicide museum. I think it was like actually the book that really got me in terms of like, Hannah Bear talks about like, what is the real difference between social justice work and like a medical professional who are trying to like confine my gender identity and my own experience that is more nuanced. She doesn't say it like that. But basically what she's saying is it is nuanced. There's no simple trans experience. Because she was talking about this one like article about not having sex with trans girl. It's like one of those like lesbian posts. That not having sex with a trans girl is transphobic. And she's like really like kind of like meditating on that. But she's like, but I have I do have desire to be appear as this like normal like girl. Or fuck with normal girl. Like there is a desire for that. And then is denying that like problematic? And then, some of these hot takes are kind of silly sometimes. I sometimes I feel like there are moments wjere it could be intriguing to figure out and navigate well, where is my position? Yeah, but I feel worried about... like I was talking to my friend. And some of tjese social justice hot takes really feels like Korean church to me in terms of like, there's like morality, like stake of morality and like, oh my god, god is frowning upon you.
Bradley
It's so funny because me and my friends, we always say that the new pastor is the influencer. Because there's this idea where it's like, you're this good person and I have to come to you to tell me how to be good. And if you don't think I'm good, then I'm bad?
Taehee
And I'm just like, girl, like, I don't trust you unless you get cancelled at least one time. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Bradley
Yeah, you're like, get cancelled once and then you're my friend. No, it's like, there's too many pedestals and it's parasocial relationship. I don't know these people. And like, I know your identity, probably if you put it in your bio, but then it's like, I don't know. That doesn't mean I know who you are.
Taehee
And just like sometimes like, these people say like, some of them, there's like influencers, they say sometimes like cool things. But at the same time, I'm like, but they're influencers. It's not that they are like sociologists or like psychologists. Like, what is their expertise other than like really able to sell certain ideas?
Bradley
They become a symbol for it.
Taehee
Yeah, it really there because they are symbols and then I'm like slay, sure you do that. But then I feel like then like, but then like that, the being a dicating almost like a morale. Then like, oh, we have a problem. Yeah. I feel like that is kind of like, because these things in life are so more nuanced and complex, which is so fun sometimes.
Bradley
Yeah, it's the joy of it.
Taehee
I, oh my God, there was this group, like Sad Asian Girl. I don't know if you know. They were like this, like, collective started from like, RISD, but became like, kind of like more like a national, like saying like, towards like, specifically like East Asian girls, like East Asian fans. But then like, then it kind of became very like militant in terms of like, and also like their identity branding to like, it's their first identity was like, say, Sad Asian Girl. But there's some people at a point, they go, oh, what about like, not femme people? What about people who are not girl? Like, just like, and then like, just turned into like, Sad Asian. But also like, it's so, what is so funny to me? Because I'm just like, like, then what is Asian? And also like, and I feel like also, I think, after because we read the girlhood and the plastic image, we, I feel like girl is such a like fluid being. I feel like, let's say, I feel like, like, if I have transitioned, if I'm taking on T, it's like, I can just say that I'm a girl. I'm a girl, like, in a way, like, I understand what that experience might be like. I'm like, I really, I know the experience of being treated as a girl. At least I can say that. So I feel like weird, like, politics, I'm like, that is really crazy to me. And I think that they are like, talking about shit about drag culture, actually, like talking about it. It's like, oh my God, this is a chis man mocking womanhood.
Bradley
The Sad Asian Girl collective?
Taehee
Yeah, there are a couple of people, not as like a group. There are a couple of people I was meeting on this thread. But this was there hot take. Like I get it, you're in your late teens, early twenties. You're trying to figure something out, I guess. But at the same time, no girly. No girl. But so, and then I obviously, like, a couple of people were like hey, I don't see this as chill that this is going on. And then gave anonymous feedback. And then the the admin suddenly made this post, like, hey, I read all this. I'm like, reading all this like, feedback. And I mean, emotional labor. Like, I'm like, doing so much emotional labor right now. So, Venmo me. Like, those kind of silly drama. Yeah. And I'm just like, and I heard it from, another kind of influencer really involved in the social justice work. They said something oh yeah, I love keeping track of what people said and reflecting back on it. In terms of their past behavior to see if they all match up or to call out problematic. I'm just like, that's so exhausting.
Bradley
Surveillance?
Taehee
It's like, almost like a surveillance. And then you were saying you were like against carceral system. But this is like, such a surveillance thing.
Bradley
Yeah, it's the same ideas of punishing and good and bad.
Taehee
It really becomes that. So I just like, I don't know how we got here, but just like, I think like, there are moments I'm just like, huh? Yeah, and then I'm just like, I just feel Asian girl and sad. And I guess I ended up in hot MS drama, basically.
Bradley
You were involved in the-
Taehee
I wasn't, but I was part of the like, in that like, Facebook group. And I just left because I'm so sick and tired of this. Like, it's just like this, like, late teens and early 20s. Like, like figuring something out, but like, you are like, making this as if this is like a right or wrong. Like, yeah, like, it's the way they're trying to make this thing. I feel like they're just also trying to figure themselves out. And I'm still just like, this is like, why are you being punishing? Why are you being... Yeah, it was like just feeling violent.
Bradley
Yeah, the need to like... It's still like power. It's still a call or attempt to claim power when it's like, oh, I'm gooder than you.
Taehee
Yeah, it really is. So I'm just like, what is this? Anyway...
Bradley
I think I want to end with a question, which is when was the most recent time you felt queer euphoria?
Taehee
I don't know. You're like, I don't know. I mean, like, I feel like... How about this? So I feel like when I was imagining the queer euphoria, I was like imagining... When I was younger, especially, I was like imagining big tranformation, like scale, so big. Yeah, yeah. That just like, oh my God, I feel finally like I so belong. So now this is like the euphoria is like here and there. It's like smaller scale, like even right now, like...
Bradley
It feels so nice.
Taehee
It feels so nice. And even like when I was like chatting with Kai today, just like... Because we also talked a lot about our queer experience, like family, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I just... I think this like small euphoria like are able to happen because I feel like I have this like community, like this network able to like exist. Like... And... Yeah. The stress of work and everything. Definitely Simi. Like at this moment, Simi is like definitely giving me a lot of energy. You know, like it's just like... Yeah, no, she's a lot of like really sweet, sometimes silly, like really affirming stuff. And I'm just like, bitch.
Bradley
Yeah, you're like, girl. Bitch.
Taehee
I love you.
Bradley
Okay. That feels good. I think we can take it down. Where did the rat go?
Taehee
Bring back my New York girlie.
Bradley
Bring her back.
Taehee
Bring her back. Ratatouille.
Bradley
Ratatouille.
Thank you so much, Tae.
Taehee
Thank you, Bradley.
Bradley
I really appreciate this. Okay, logging off, you guys.